I was re-reading last year’s posts on Do We Need Rogues? and The Rogue Question II, and I got to thinking about traps. What’s the point?
We could say they’re supposed to add an element of tension, of risk, to the game. Whether the defusing method is D&D’s dice rolls, Elder Scrolls’ minigames, Avernum’s “skill equal to or greater than to some preset number”, or any other procedure, you’re supposed to feel uncertainty about success and worried about failure.
As we know, however, most players in this situation will save the game first (unless they forget, oops). Then if their character is killed, or hit with a nasty condition for which no cure is available, they just reload and try again. Except for “equal or greater”, since you either can or can’t.
While there might be a small feeling of danger, then, there isn’t a lot of it. The risk is actually minimal, because the only consequence of failure is a reload.
With that in mind, why bother with traps at all? Especially the minigame type, where you have to fiddle around in some way to deactivate the thing. Spending several minutes - or possibly more - of effort, only to have it blow up in your face, is certainly worse than the swifter dice role or skill comparison.
I believe that traps really belong to the pen & paper games. There the DM is on hand to make changes on the fly, even fudge results if necessary. Good DMs aren’t out to kill the PCs, although a little torture now and then is good for the players’ souls ;)
Of course, a trap need not be immediately lethal. However, if I were some evil being protecting my home/treasures, I’d certainly want all my traps to be as deadly as possible. Otherwise, why have them at all?
So what if designers dispensed with traps altogether? Would that make the dungeon/lair/whatever seem less “real”? Would it make the game seem too easy, even though we know we’d be able to reload had there been traps? Would you really miss them? I don’t think I would.
Yeah, that’s pretty much the way of evolution of the modern RPG - strip out all that other junk, so there’s more room for combat.
/Sigh.
Yeah, that’s pretty much the way of evolution of the modern RPG - strip out all that other junk, so there’s more room for comedy.
Sigh.
sorry, had to take a shot. only kidding.
Hey, what are these forums good for if we can’t give each other a friendly razzing once in a while… :)
Hey, there’s still room for, you know, story. Remember that? ;)
I think the issue is the ease of reloading after any significant event in a game. I loved the design of Darklands, but only played for a couple of hours because it was so easy to save before any skill event and keep reloading until you got the desired outcome. Traps are the most common of such skill tests.
The design option I’d love to see available to test in game is having all skill tests (including traps, obviously) enforced. Simply write the results of all skill checks to a file for a character so that if that character goes to an earlier save point and tries that trap again the character will get the exact same result (perhaps, including the loot generated, Muwahaha). The player could choose not to ever open that chest, but if they failed the trap-check they must face the consequence if they want the loot.
Nasty, Mert. I can see people looking for cheat programs with that sort of thing enabled. I’d hate it, myself. It turns the game into a war between the players and the designers. Not a good situation.
Which is why I’d make it an option like (or as part of) the more usual hardcore mode. I’d play that way were it available. I often play hardcore modes when they are available particularly in action RPG’s.
I like traps in games that are woven into the storyline.
Let’s look at the typical series of traps for a minute…
I disagree with Scorpia on this issue. I wouldn’t always want to have the most deadly trap in the world guarding my stuff. Maybe I have kids that are inquisitive? Maybe I live in a city where the authorities don’t like having corpses show up in offices. Maybe I really don’t want to attract that type of attention at all. In these circumstances my ‘trap’ would be of the flash-bang ‘let’s attract ALL the attention we can REALLY fast’ type. In these situations an alarm-trap is much more appropriate.
But most of all I like traps in quests/missions where the player has a chance to learn the secret through playing the game. Let’s face it. If I’m going to enter a place for material reasons (getting loot, information, killing a schmuck, etc) I’m going to do some research on what I’m going to find. Doing so might extend to asking around some experienced rogues or grey-beard types to hear what they’ve heard about the target. Maybe I’ll go look up the contractor (master craftsman if you prefer) and ask politely what security measures there are on that building they just finished doing work for. Maybe I’ll ask not so politely. MAybe there will be a side-quest that allows me to discover this information and I can proceed with relative certainty that I’ll be able to circumvent the trap.
I put it upon the writer of the RPG (anyone recognize this rant of mine?) to make the traps reasonable and rational.
As a GM would I put a nuclear bomb as a trap for a trip wire in the jungle for my first level party to face just after equipping for the first time? No. Just the same I wouldn’t put a fireball on a chest in a random house in the countryside that I’m ransacking just because its there.
I would put a tripwire with a big rock on the end and a chest with a siren on it in these situations.
The nuke I’d reserve for MY escape when I evade the big baddie and run with the widget.
I always found a trap to be more of an annoyance and really added nothing to the gaming experience, in some cases even detracting from it. The first time through a game I usually play a fighter. Quick and easy to get into, no complicated spellbooks or potion mixing, just run up and slice and dice. Of course the fighter’s main attributes are strength and constitution, so I would end up triggering every trap in the dungeon since I had invested in those skills rather than rogue skills. I wouldn’t miss traps a bit.
Besides traps, mini games to unlock chests and doors get old fast. I quickly got bored with the lock picking in Oblivion. The one exception was Bioshock. I liked it’s hacking mini game, reminiscent of the old Pipe Dreams/Pipemania from Lucas Arts. It was the rare exception though.
Tumbleweed, some interesting ideas there. Unfortunately, I can’t see developers doing that sort of complex situation just to get by a trap. Once, maybe, for something extra special. Things like this are so much easier in live gaming.
Some of the “city traps” you mention are likely to be on chests belonging to other than bad guys. Typically, though, traps are found in “dungeons”, where the “bad guys” are.
And certainly, it would be nonsensical to have a fireball or nuke set on a trap for low-level characters. I wouldn’t do it, either.
Xian, right. When the game allows for multiple classes, especially in a solo outing, the non-rogue is usually at a disadvantage. That’s another drawback.
My dream is to play an RPG that feels like the Thief series. There were moments in the Elder Scrolls games that were like that, but they were few and far between.
I guess I always wanted to be Indiana Jones or something….
My understanding is that Thief was all about stealth and being unseen. How does that equate to being Indy?