Today on his blog, Coyote (he’s been busy lately) has posted his list of “16 Essential RPGs”. The ones that he believes are the “benchmarks”, the games, though old, that serious game writers should be familiar with.
This is a sort of extension of his post on A Lack Of Perspective by many of today’s game journalists.
You’ll find many familiar titles on the list. I knew all of them, though there are five I’ve never played. One series that isn’t mentioned, however, is Eye Of The Beholder.
While it wasn’t exactly ground-breaking, and I don’t consider it “Hall Of Fame” material, it did do one thing, for better or worse. It brought real-time combat to AD&D (now just D&D).
In one of the comments, a poster suggested Wasteland. A nice thought, but I don’t think it had much effect at the time, except that several horrible “post-nuke” games followed in its wake.
Anyway, check out the post, see if you agree (or disagree) with the list, and whether you can think of a game that was missed.
I’m a little surprised the original NWN didn’t make the cut. Not for the mostly forgettable official campaign, but for the toolset and DM client. Observation of what the NWN player community has done would be valuable to any prospective game writer, I would think.
For a recent example, the Firefly campaign I’ll co-DM starting Sunday uses the community-made Nightfire futuristic content mod, along with D20 Modern (contemporary content) and CEP 2.0. The result is astounding to me. You can space-walk with stars all around, watch as your shuttle undocks and flies through the atmosphere, and use modern weaponry (guns, etc.). It uses the T20 (Traveller) system, with adaptations of classes such as professional (e.g. engineer), academic, and noble.
Investigation of what players will spend months and years to build themselves just might offer some insight, some new possibilities in game type, to designers. (Maybe — I am, of course, rather biased.)
Yeah - this was a weird list because it’s not necessarily the best, or most important, or most ground-breaking games that I put in the list. It is simply the games that I hear invoked most commonly (including RIGHT HERE at Scorpia’s Gaming Lair) to provide that “historical perspective” and comparison of games… or used simply to describe other games.
It’s a weird criteria, but my decision-making process for what went on the list (and I freely admit it’s got some weird biases to it) was how “left out” I’d feel in discussions of RPG design and critique if I was unfamiliar with the game. And in the case of Planescape and M&M 4/5, I *do* feel left out a lot. Fortunately, a buddy loaned me Planescape: Torment, so I’ll hopefully be able to address that deficiency soon.
he left out that european epic that never quite got fixed. sure wish i could remember it’s name Darkland???
Oh, ignore my post then. I didn’t understand the criteria. This is sort of like how you need to watch certain films, or read certain books, (even if you know you’ll dislike them) because otherwise you’ll be clueless when others in your social circle refer to them. Learning the “language” of games that people talk about most.
In that case, I’m mostly game illiterate. I’ve only played four on that list, plus read detailed walkthroughs/summaries of two or three others, for what that’s worth. I’d do better if any game of a series counted. e.g. I did Ultima II & III, but was in the Mac ghetto for most of the rest; Might and Magic 6 & 7 after leaving the Mac ghetto, missing the previous ones. For console games I get a big fat zero. Never owned one. :P
That’s actually a pretty good list. I hadn’t played the console games on there such as Chrono Trigger but I had most of the PC games.
One correction, Dungeonmaster was an Atari ST game. It was not ported to the Amiga and other platforms until later. It would probably be in my main list of influences because it was the first game with a real first person perspective. I know some of the earlier RPGs such as Ultima had a first person perspective in the dungeons, but Dungeonmaster was the first realistic one, not simple wireframe and colored panels. It spawned a whole subgenre, the most famous being the Eye of the Beholder series, but other notables in that syle were Bloodwych, The Black Crypt, and Galdregons Domain.
While I agree that Ultima IV is a more worthy representative on the list, Ultima III stands out in my mind as the first game that I played that had a party. The previous Ultimas were all a single character affair, but being able to control multiple characters added a whole new dimension of gameplay.
System Shock was my favorite FPS/RPG hybrid.
Planescape Torment, I tried to like this one, but as Scorpia labeled NWN2: The Movie, I would have labeled it Planescape Torment: The Novel. I enjoy a good story, but PT went too far with way too much reading and not enough action.
if you wanted an RPG with story then you could opt for the one Scorp hated. they used the story line of an author Raymond Fiest or somethig like that and the author himself participated in development.
what scrop didn’t like was the ‘chapters’ where you reached a point and moved from chapter 1 to 2…
Betrayal at Krondor.
They also had two more - Betrayal at Antarra and Return to Krondor. I only played the first one (and never finished it… alas, too many RPGs are left in that state).
never finished Betrayal at Krondor? strange i don’t recall it as being that difficult, outside a few encounters.
unless like scorp you disliked the ‘chapter’ aspect that locked you out of going back to stuff.
I never finished BAK; there were too many things about it I didn’t like, of which the “chapters” was just one.
Also, I don’t think it had much influence on the genre.
So, Scorpia, which games do YOU think had the most influence on the genre? Or created a series of firsts?
I think noone can argue with me that:
1. Alkebeth was one of the FIRST PC RPGs
2. Wizardry 1 and Ultima III were the first two RPGs that allowed you to P-A-R-T-Y.
3. Ultima IV was the first game that really forced you to role play a character, the Avatar. What a novel concept: to role play in a RPG. What will they think of next?
4. M&M IV and V were the first, and to date, the only interlocking games to be released.
5. Dungeon Master was the first real-time, first person, RPG around. Later improved upon by Eye of the Beholder.
6. Wizard Crown explored turn-based combat that very games before it did. The combat was later improved upon by its sequal Shard of Spring and Pool of Radiance.
7. Diablo 1 and 2 were the first real time third person hack and slash games. Diablo gave the RPG a much-needed shot in the arm to revive the genre.
8. Buldar’s Gate 1 and 2 were two of the best RPGs that came out because of Diablo.
9. Scorpion’s Tale was the BEST review of RPGs around!!!!
So, Scorpia, what is the Scorpion’s View about my list???
Presto, nice list. That’s “Aklabeth”, by the way. We could add to that one that it had an early - if crude - 3D, first-person dungeon. You could actually see the monsters heading your way (not the ones creeping up from behind, though ;).
However, I’m not so sure that U3 was the second “party” game. I’ll have to do some looking up there.
Might & Magic also gave us “quests”, those annoying little side jobs to do in our copious leisure time. Heh.
You’ve gotten a bit mixed up with Wizard’s Crown. The followup to that one was Eternal Dagger. WC was very heavy on tactical combat.
Shard of Spring (and its sequel, Demon’s Winter) were not related to Crown. Nor was WC (or Shard) related to Pool of Radiance, the first true AD&D-based CRPG.
Diablo affected Baldur’s Gate mainly in the move to real-time combat.
And I most definitely agree with #9 on your list, except I’m sure you meant Scorpion’s View, since the Tale was a hints column ;)
Scorpia,
You’re right about Lord Brittish’s first RPG game. I just wasn’t quite sure how to spell it.
You’re right about Eternal Dagger as being the follow up to WC. However, my point about combat was that WC and ED explored the same turn-based combat mode later used for Pool. Namely, tatical combat. Not surprising since all of these games came from the late, gate SSI. Lest we all forget, SSI was as well known for PC war games as for RPGs. It is interesting to note, Scorpia, that SSI released more RPGs during the 80’s and 90’s than (probably) EA, Interplay, Sierra, Microprose, Mindscape, New World Computing, and Origin put together.
As far as the CGW columns are concern, Scorpia, methinks the old scorpion is a little mixed up. If I remember correctly:
1. Scorpion’s Tale covered reviews of games each month.
2. Scorpion’s Mail dealt with hints and answers to game-related problems.
3. Scorpion’s View dealt with everthing else.
I admit that each month when I received my copy of CGW, I would nomally turn to Scorpion’s Tale (I still say, it should have been Scorpion’s Tail) first to see what new game the young Scorpion had to tell me about and whether or not I should buy it.
I would also read letters from Scorpion’s Mail about games that I was playing as well. I still remember reading here your answer from so many players as to why their characters were entering AR: the Dungeon as evil after playing AR: The City. You replied that if you kept on killing paupers (the easiest creatures to kill in City), since that is an evil act, it would make your character evil as well.
I don’t remember too much about articles written for View.
Of cource, whereas Tale was a regular feature every month, View and Mail only appeared about once a quarter.
Scorpia, as far as quests are concerned, I don’t recall ANY quest givers in any of the 9 M&M games. Or any of the 8 Wizardry games. Or any of the 9 Ultima games.
I do recall in the ES: Arena and ES: Daggerfall games, when you join guilds, they would give you jobs to do in order to rise in the guild.
Arena came out in 1994 and Daggerfall in 1996. So, I believe that the honor of the first game that gave out quests would probably belong to Arena.
Presto, thanks for the clarification on your meaning of those SSI games being related. Yeah, I think you have a point there. But I dunno is SSI really released that many RPGs. Even if you throw in the Phantasie trilogy ;)
I started with CGW writing the Tale, a hint column devoted to one particular game. The Mail originally appeared in the short-lived Computer Gaming Forum; when that folded, it moved to the regular mag. The View had the game reviews.
You don’t remember ANY side quests in the Might & Magics? (and I thought I suffered from the “Fade of Memory” ;) Think hard, I’m sure you’ll recall a few that didn’t relate to the main line or advancing your character class. At least in the more recent ones.
Good list Coyote. I don’t agree with the order but I do agree, with most of the entries. I think Ultima VII is conspiculously missing.
I do agree with the above comment that Darkland could be on the list though I think it would qualify as a “failed experiment” due to the atrocious bugs though the final patched version you can download now is great.
I would say one other is missing. Mega Traveller 1! Hands down the greatest character generator and the story was great as well.
My Scorpia, did you forget a lot of SSI’s RPGs.
SSI released the following:
The 9 D&D Gold box Games
War of the Lance (D&D but more of a fantasy war game)
Gemstone Warrior and Healer
Pantasie 1, 2, and 3
Wizard’s Crown and Eternal Dagger
Realms of Darkness
Questron 1 and 2
Rings of Zilfin (an early game that lead to the Magic Candle games from Mindscape)
Shard of Spring and Demon’s Winter
Star Command (Sci-Fi)
Heroes of the Lance
Dragons of Flame
Hillsfar
The 6 second Generation D&D games (Dark Sun, Spelljammer, etc.)
Summoning
Eye of the Beholder 1, 2, 3
Shadow Sorcerer
2 Buck Rogers games
Neverwinter Nights computer game-Online 1992.
Dragonstrike
Prophecy of the Shadow
Deathkeep
Slayer
Thunderscape
Entomorph
Unlimited Adventures
Dungeon Hack
Stronghold
Fantasy Empires
I have to admit that by 1995, SSI was going down hill fast. SSI just lost the D&D rights, their big hope for the future, Thunderscape, failed to gather an audiance. So SSi at this time was releasing fewer and fewer games. And by the time Pool 2 was released in 1999, it was RIP time for SSI-the company that set the gold standard.
As far as M&M is concerned, M&M 6 came out in 1996 whereas ES: Arena came out in 1994 and ES2: Daggerfall came out in 1996. Therefore, Scorpia, I stand by my statement above, it was the ES series that started this business with side quests and, especially, the infamous Fed-Ex quests. No question in my mind, it was the Elder Scrolls series that introduced the concept of the side quests.
Presto, that’s an impressive list of SSI games; I’d forgotten about some of those.
However, you’re quite wrong about side quests. Buzz over to gamefaqs some time and check out the walkthrus for the early M&M games. They did indeed have side quests.
Scorpia,
I know that I have played M&M 1 to 5 a lot with the World of Xeen recently. And I admit I don’t recall any side quests per se. Like quest givers. Although, I do remember vaguely about someone giving you jobs to do so you can earn gold in an early M&M. I think that might be Isles of Terra (M&M III). But, I’m not sure.
But, I will give you the benefit of the doubt (if you EXCUSE the pun).
So good of you, Presto. But really, check out those walkthrus. M&M did have quests in those early games.
Speaking of M&M, hay Ubisoft, now that you are finished with Heroes of M&M 5, I want my M&Ms. When are you going to get off your duffs and start on M&M X??????
I loved everyone’s comments. I posted a somewhat revised version of this list with an emphasis on storytelling/writing on the Writers Cabal blog. Let me know what you think!
Wow I don’t know any of these games at all except Diablo. Damn that game was awesome :)
I never got caught up in Ultima or Final Fantasy.
Really, josh? Those are some classic titles, although a few go back to the 8-bit days. Check ‘em out if you ever get the chance.