Well, I finally got a chance to read the Peter Molyneux interview that Presto mentioned in a comment a few days back. Molyneux has a rather low opinion of RPGs, especially when it comes to combat.
From the piece, I gather that he’s talking mainly about games on consoles, since he mentions controllers and “button combinations”. In that respect, he may be right when he says: “..games today are mechanically too hard and too difficult”.
Especially for casual gamers, and he’s looking in particular to get them to play his upcoming Fable 2. So he’s got a sort of dual combat system, where you can get through by just “button mashing” on one button, or you can get fancy and fight in the more “traditional” way.
Will that appeal to the “casuals”? I don’t know, but I rather have my doubts. Particularly as those who do the “traditional” style of fighting will be “rewarded” with more points than those who just “bash (or mash)” away.
This is also the game that has the “non-death” system that was noted here some time back. Your character, if laid low, can sacrifice some experience points and bounce right back up to continue fighting. Or, you can keep the experience and take a beating that will leave permanent scars on your body.
Personally, I can’t see that either or both of these features would make the game inviting to casual players. I also don’t think his answer to the “die/restore” problem is all that good, for that matter.
The interview doesn’t have anything about actual game content; it’s all about the mechanics, with the focus on combat. Check it out, and see what you think.
On the surface it doesn’t sound much different than what has been done already on other platforms. Metroid has had the “hold and charge” for quite some time, and Zelda has the special attacks and counter moves, learned as you progress through the game. I won’t prejudge though, I will have to wait and see how he implements it in Fable 2.
To me the steep learning curve, button combo memorization aspect is just one thing that turns off casual gamers. The going rate for Xbox 360 games is now $60 for a AAA title like Fable 2. I don’t know very many casual gamers that would pay that price. Things like Bejeweled at $20 a pop or Nintendo DS games for $20-30 sell like hotcakes. The $60 entry fee also discourages the impulse buyer. I am much more likely to experiment on a title when the price is low.
I do agree with him that the combat in Oblivion was badly implemented. I still haven’t seen any system for a sword type game such as Oblivion as well implemented as the original of the genre – Ultima Underworld. It was so intuitive, move your mouse forward to thrust – you felt like you were really thrusting since your arm was going through the same forward motion, or side to side to slash – again simulating the real motion required. Of course that is with a mouse, it would be hard to do on an xbox controller, but Zelda on the Wii has already implemented similar styles of play.
It sounds somewhat similar to Jade Empire, another “RPG” that tried to implement fighting game lite. JE didn’t penalize for not using the more complex combos, though.
Despite his optimistic view that players will see extra XP for complex combos as a bonus, I’m pretty sure those “casuals” who use the simple key-mashing technique will see it as a penalty.
I think they’ll also see the disfigurement penalty for death as a harsh penalty too. It’s a kind of hardcore mode, with no option for easier play. “Casuals” who happen to finish the game in a monstrously hideous state won’t feel like winners, methinks.
And what’s with him equating ugliness with evil? Who in the world considers a battle-scarred veteran a bad person by default?
Heh. Xian, obviously those consoles need a joystick for moves like those ;)
But yeah, I agree with you and Dell: what he has so far isn’t going to appeal to “casuals”. Shucks, it doesn’t appeal to me, either (not that I’d play a console game, but still…).
There’s also the matter of how much combat will be in the game. I got the impression from the interview that F2 may have quite a bit.
As for looks, some people might not want to walk around with an ugly-looking character. Think of Nameless in Planescape, who was a very unappealing lump of flesh because of all his resurrections.
Well, Scorpia,
I have to ask you, how does feel walkinf=g around as a giant scorpion???
what do button combo’s have to do with RPGs?
they are important to first person SHOOTER games NOT RPGs.
it is time these gonzo developers stopped turning every game into a first person real time shooter game. let us return to REturn to games that emphasis turn based combat, exploration and char developlment and NOT muscle twitching key pads!
Well, that’s the thing, Ag. Console games are (in)famous for using fancy button pushing to do “combat combos”.
But I agree, it would be nice to return to turn-based combat. Unfortunately, we’re in the minority here :(
Oh, and Presto: it feels darn good!
I have decided that I have no idea what casual gamers want or think. From what I’ve seen their opinions and things they enjoy seem completely alien to me.
If Fable 2 has a good story, I’ll gladly pay the 60 bucks to play it. But then, I don’t think I’ve been a “casual” gamer for a long time.
I wonder, though, if there’s any such thing as a real “casual” gamer anymore? What does that mean, really? People who like Tetris and Bejewelled? People who enjoy Zelda? Myst? I realize I have little concept of what is “casual”, even with all the talk of it in articles and here.
He may have a low opinion of RPG’s, I have a low (very low) opinion of him. Especially after I wasted my children’s milk money on Fable. He needs to go back and play Coyote’s essential list + Ultima VII and learn something.
Just because he doesn’t like the RPG combat system doesn’t mean anything more than he can play something else.
He shows his true colors the moment “casual” gamer/gaming crosses his lips.
I the voice of Yoda, “His opinion matters not.”
Well, I liked Fable. Maybe I just wasn’t expecting anything too involving so I wasn’t disappointed. I had fun with it, though it was very linear. It was more like a story you move along than a RPG, but it had its moments.
The combat system wasn’t anything very complex, but I had fun seeing how my character ended up looking and how people reacted to him (try acceping an “escort the merchant” quest and getting him to follow you when he’s shrieking and cowering and running away at the sight of you… hehe).
Maybe I’m just easy to entertain.