And it’s all Presto’s fault ;) Over in Essential RPGS?, he commented that Wizardry and Ultima III were the first to have the party (rather than solo) system of play. Wizardry I could agree with. But U3? Surely between those two there had been others.
First, I consulted my back issues of CGW, and had a shock. There were very few CRPGs at that time. I reviewed Ultima III in the December 1983 issue. The game ratings page showed only eight titles that were CRPG, and some of those (like the original Wizardry and Telengard) were not exactly new.
Then I hauled out my binders of old manuals. Really old, since they’re for Apple games, most of which I don’t have any more. I couldn’t find anything there, either, for the period between Wizardry I and Ultima III.
Except, perhaps, Apventure To Atlantis, with a copyright date of 1980. The question, of course, is: was it a CRPG? In some ways, yes. You recruited mercenaries, and they had stats.
There was also the matter of alignment, whether you (or you and your army) were good or evil. This naturally depended on how you behaved during the game.
On the other hand, as I vaguely recall, fighting was not an individual matter, but handled somehow by computer. This only makes sense, since you started with nine in the group, and added to it along the way.
If we count Apventure as a CRPG, it may even pre-date Wizardry. But even if not, it’s a sobering thought that there were so few games in this genre early on, and fewer yet that had parties.
It was in the mid-late 80s that the big rush came in, and adventure games – of which there were many – began to dwindle. In thinking it over, I suspect the market was already beginning to change.
As the computer spread into more homes, a younger generation was getting into gaming, and youth is always impatient. It’s much more fun to bash monsters than work out some obscure puzzle. Faster, too.
But I digress. In any case, this showed me that the past is never what you thought it was. And that sometimes, Presto is right ;)
Well, Scorpia,
Sometimes even Scorpia is right. As I freely Admitted elsewhere.
But, regardless about Apventure (should that be ADventure not APventure???), Wiz 1 and Ultima III were the first really popular CRPGS that allowed you to P-A-R-T-Y.
M&M 1 and Bard’s Tale 1 would not even be released until 1985. Wastelands and Magic Candle even later. Wastelands came out around 1987 and Magic Candle around 1989.
It is hard to believe how many really important CRPGs were really late comers to the CRPG PARTY.
Amazing isn’t it???
It really is “Apventure.” Because it was on the Apple. And they were being cute.
Can’t say I ever played it, but I still have a book about mastering certain popular Apple Computer Games lying around that featured that game.
I wonder if any of the mainframe / Plato – based RPGs back before they became commercial featured character parties?
Another point about Wiz 1 and Ultima III, namely these two games were ported over to all major PCs of the 80’s. Apventure was only on the apple PC. So I never even heard of the game since I started with the C64 and both Wiz 1 and Ultima III were available for my PC.
So, I should have said: Wiz 1 and Ultima III were the first games that allowed you to party on the C64, atari, IBM, but not the Apple. Now, can you argue with that statement, Ms S???
Well, Scorpia, to really add more debate here, I just brought out my old copies of The Book of Adventure Games Books 1 and 2 and Quest For Clues 1, 2, 3, and 4 by Shay Addams.
Let’s see what Adventure 1 says:
Knight of Diamonds
Labyrinth of Crete (2 characters)
Legacy of Llylgamyn
Ultima III
Wizardry 1
And that’s it. The book is copyrighted 1985. Apventure is not even mentioned. And Labrinth is more of an adventure for 2 anyway. So, again only Wiz 1 and Ultima III shows up.
Adventure 2 gives:
The only RPG is Questron 1 which is a single-character game.
Quest For Clues 1 (c.1988):
Bard’s Tale 1985
Bard’s Tale II c. 1988
M&M I 1985
Phantasie I 1985
Phantasie II 1986
Phantasie III 1987
Shard of Spring 1986
Ultima IV 1985
Wizard’s Crown 1985
Quest II:
Pool of Radiance 1987
Bard’s Tale III c. 1988
Eternal Dagger 1987
Faery Tale Adventure
Star Command 1988
Ultima V 1987
Wasteland c. 1988
Wizardry IV c. 1987
Quest III:
Centauri Alliance
Champions of Krynn
Curse of the Azure Bonds
Dragon Wars
Drakkhen
Journey
Magic Candle
Starflight
Starflight 2
Wizardry V
Not included:
Realms of Darkness 1987
Demon’s Winter 1988
From Quest IV:
Bane of the Cosmic Forge
Countdown to Doomsday
Death Knights of Krynn
Eye of the Beholder
Fountain of Dreams
Legend of Faerghail
MagaTraveller I
M&M 2
Mines of Titan
Secret of the Silver Blades
Sentinel Worlds
Tunnels and Trolls
Ultima VI
Not included:
Dungeon Master
There you have it Scorpia, the party RPGs did not have their hay day until 1984/85 on.
Umm, Presto, what did you mean back there with “So, I should have said: Wiz 1 and Ultima III were the first games that allowed you to party on the C64, atari, IBM, but not the Apple.”
Not the Apple? Wiz 1 and U3 were on the Apple first. Or was that a typo?
And yes, as I said in my post, the deluge of RPGs didn’t occur until the mid-late 80s.
Coyote, interesting question. I’m not aware of any mainframe RPGs, although they may have had some Rogue-like ones.
I played Adventure to Atlantis, but never finished it. I don’t remember it as an CRPG, but then I can’t recall much about the game. I remember there were some adventure game like screens at the start of the game, I bought it thinking it was an adventure game.
I think Ali Baba, by Stuart Smith, released in 1981 might qualify as a CRPG. I believe you could have up to around 18 people under your control in the game, they had stats, and you bought basic equipment like weapons and armour. It was turned based, definitely not an arcade game. Great game, and the sequel, Return of Heracles, 1982, was even better.
You always remember your first. Ultima III was the first game that I played that had multiple playable characters. I had the Atari 800 and Wizardry was never ported to it so I didn’t get to try that series until much later. I think Bane of the Cosmic Forge was the first I played of that series, and that was on the Amiga.
Ultima III was my first CRPG, too. And it was the first one I finished, though I finished it a long time after I’d started it, stopped and played other things that I didn’t finish, and came back to it.
Prior to that I only recall playing Adventure on a Z80 system and something on a Trash-80 (Temple of Apshai, maybe? I can’t remember.)
My very FIRST computer game ever was Adventure, though.
Actually, I’m not 100% positive I remember my first :) I think it was Telengard, but having thought back I remembered a really crappy RPG I bought for the C-64 from this dinky little company that advertised in Compute! Magazine that specialized in text adventures.
The program was all in BASIC, and was kind of a wannabe-Wizardry game. I can’t remember the name of it. I think the dungeon had only three levels to it. I never did finish it (I only knew it was three levels because I looked through the source code).
I don’t know if it was that game or Telengard that came first. But it was Ultima III that blew my socks off not long afterwards.
Klara, Apshai was all about going into a dungeon filled with mainly hostile ants. It had no goal; just pure “hack and haul” until you tired of it.
Malcolm, didn’t play Ali Baba. Or maybe I did. I’ve got here an original game holder for Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves, though no docs. The back says “any number can play. Up to 17 friendly characters can join together (to) rescue the princess. Each player guides his own character or group of characters”.
Huh. I wonder how they could manage that on the Apple. I guess everything was turn-based and each player took a turn at the computer. One of the first MP games, too, then.
And I don’t recall a thing about it.